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mso-even-footer:url("Undefeated-After-a-Quarter-of-a-Century.fld/header.html") ef1; mso-footer:url("Undefeated-After-a-Quarter-of-a-Century.fld/header.html") f1; mso-first-header:url("Undefeated-After-a-Quarter-of-a-Century.fld/header.html") fh1; mso-first-footer:url("Undefeated-After-a-Quarter-of-a-Century.fld/header.html") ff1; mso-paper-source:0;} div.WordSection1 {page:WordSection1;} --> </style> <!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0cm; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;} </style> <![endif]--> <meta property="og:title" content="Rtviks Reveal How They Became Gurus"> <meta property="og:type" content=image> <meta property="og:url" content="https://www.iskconirm.com/docs/webpages/btp70-Rtviks-Reveal-How-they-Became-Gurus.html"> <meta property="og:image" content="https://www.iskconirm.com/images/btp70-Jayapataka-Swami.png"> <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="2050"/> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapelayout v:ext="edit"> <o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="2"/> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--> </head> <body bgcolor="#F8FFF5" lang=en-PT link=blue vlink=purple style='tab-interval: 36.0pt;word-wrap:break-word'> <div class=WordSection1> <div align=center> <table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=30 cellpadding=0 width=812 style='width:609.2pt;mso-cellspacing:1.5pt;background:#993366;mso-yfti-tbllook: 1184;mso-padding-alt:5.65pt 5.4pt 5.65pt 5.4pt'> <tr style='mso-yfti-irow:0;mso-yfti-firstrow:yes;mso-yfti-lastrow:yes; height:36.65pt'> <td width=808 style='width:606.2pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt; height:36.65pt'> <h1 align=center style='text-align:center'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif; color:#FFFFCC'>Undefeated After a Quarter of a Century<o:p></o:p></span></h1> </td> </tr> </table> </div> <p class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; display:none;mso-hide:all'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p> <div align=center> <table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=30 cellpadding=0 width=800 style='width:600.0pt;mso-cellspacing:1.5pt;background:white;mso-yfti-tbllook: 1184;mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'> <tr style='mso-yfti-irow:0;mso-yfti-firstrow:yes;mso-yfti-lastrow:yes'> <td width=824 style='width:618.0pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'> <blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'> <p align=center style='text-align:center'><b><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'><a href="https://www.iskconirm.com/"><br> </a></span></b><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><a href="https://www.iskconirm.com/"><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-no-proof:yes;text-decoration:none; text-underline:none'><img border=0 width=84 height=52 id="_x0000_i1025" src="https://www.iskconirm.com/images/image001.gif" alt=IRM></span></b></a></span><b><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p> <p class=regparaplusMOSTCOMMON style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right: 0cm;mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;text-indent:0cm; line-height:115%;layout-grid-mode:char'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'><a href="https://www.iskconirm.com/docs/webpages/tfo.htm"><i><span style='font-size:12.0pt;line-height:115%'>The Final Order (TFO)</span></i></a></span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Georgia",serif'>, the IRM s position paper, was presented to the GBC over a quarter of a century ago in 1996, and since then, numerous attempts have been made to answer it. That all have failed is epitomised by the fact that the GBC has felt the need to do yet another presentation against <i>TFO</i>, or what the GBC calls the  <i>rtvik</i> theory . GBC member and GBC voted-in guru </span><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'><a href="https://www.iskconirm.com/docs/webpages/badri_index.htm"><b><span style='font-size:12.0pt;line-height:115%'>HH Badrinarayan Swami ( BAD )</span></b></a></span><b><span style='font-size:12.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Georgia",serif'> </span></b><span style='font-size:12.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Georgia",serif'>explained in a lecture on 5/12/21 that there was a request in a  GBC discussion for a  PowerPoint (slideshow) on this <i>rtvik</i> , and that the GBC asked him to prepare such a slideshow. Hence, he and another GBC member and GBC voted-in guru, </span><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'><a href="https://www.iskconirm.com/docs/webpages/bhaktivaibhava_swami_index.html"><b><span style='font-size:12.0pt;line-height:115%'>HH Bhakti Vaibhava Swami</span></b></a></span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Georgia",serif'>,<b> </b>have prepared a slideshow presentation titled:<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=Mainbody style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;line-height:115%'><b><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> The <i>Rtvik</i> Theory</span></b><b><span style='font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'> </span></b><b><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> </span></b><b><span style='font-family: "Times New Roman",serif'> </span></b><b><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>A speculative assault on the timeless Vedic wisdom <o:p></o:p></span></b></p> <p class=Mainbody style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;line-height:115%'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>The full text of this slideshow is presented in the shaded boxes below, with our responses underneath each shaded box. All emphases added</span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'> (except within the shaded boxes)</span><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;line-height:115%; layout-grid-mode:char'><span lang=EN-ZA style='font-family:"Georgia",serif; mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;mso-ansi-language:EN-ZA'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;line-height:115%; layout-grid-mode:char;background:#FFC000'><span class=SpellE><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>Rtvik</span></span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'> Heresy<br> <br> The <span class=SpellE>rtvik</span> theory claims that the <span class=SpellE>disciplic</span> succession should have ended with <span class=SpellE>Srila</span> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada</span> and that none of <span class=SpellE>Srila</span> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada s</span> disciples should have become initiating gurus. </span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt;margin-left: 0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm;mso-para-margin-bottom: .4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;text-align:justify;text-indent:14.15pt; line-height:115%;layout-grid-mode:char;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p> <p style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt;margin-left: 0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm;mso-para-margin-bottom: .4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;text-align:justify;text-indent:14.15pt; line-height:115%;layout-grid-mode:char;background:white'><b><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:black'>1)</span></b><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:black'> We do&nbsp;<i>not</i>&nbsp;claim that the  disciplic succession should have ended with Srila Prabhupada . We simply state that he is the&nbsp;<i>Acarya</i>, which also means&nbsp;<i>diksa</i>&nbsp;guru, for his own Society, ISKCON. This point is proven by the GBC itself, as we show by quoting its statements verbatim in the book:</span><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'> </span><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><a href="https://www.iskconirm.com/docs/webpages/founder_acarya_book.html"><i>Srila Prabhupada: The Founder-</i>Acarya<i>&nbsp;of ISKCON</i><span style='font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'> </span> <span style='font-family: "Times New Roman",serif'> </span><i>Presenting the Conclusions of the GBC Foundational Document</i></a>.</span><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt;margin-left: 0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm;mso-para-margin-bottom: .4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;text-align:justify;text-indent:14.15pt; line-height:115%;layout-grid-mode:char;background:white'><b><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:black'>2)</span></b><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:black'> As long as Srila Prabhupada remains the current link in the disciplic succession, then the disciplic succession&nbsp;<i>continues&nbsp;</i>with Srila Prabhupada as that current link. And Srila Prabhupada remains the current link in the disciplic succession for ISKCON. We are not asserting that Srila Prabhupada is to be the current link in the disciplic succession&nbsp;<u>eternally</u>.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt;margin-left: 0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm;mso-para-margin-bottom: .4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;text-align:justify;text-indent:14.15pt; line-height:115%;layout-grid-mode:char;background:white'><b><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:black'>3)</span></b><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:black'> Obviously, if one does not answer what the  <i>rtvik</i>&nbsp;theory &nbsp;<i>actually</i>&nbsp;states, then one will not be able to answer it</span><span style='color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:black'> </span><span style='color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif; color:black'>period! And, as will be seen, that is </span><span lang=EN-GB style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'>in fact</span><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:black'> what has happened here, with the slideshow being unable to address and answer what&nbsp;<i>TFO</i>&nbsp;or the  <i>rtvik</i> theory states.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=Mainbody style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;line-height:115%'><b><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>4)</span></b><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> That the slideshow felt compelled to make its very opening statement a false one, merely highlights how weak the slideshow is, as we shall now document.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;text-align:justify; line-height:115%;layout-grid-mode:char'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;text-align:justify; line-height:115%;layout-grid-mode:char;background:#FFC000'><span class=SpellE><i><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif; color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>Srila</span></i></span><i><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada</span> should have remained the only initiating guru, continuing to take disciples after his physical departure through the medium of priestly functionaries called <span class=SpellE>rtviks</span> or officiating acharyas.</span></i><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'> This is a practice without precedent in Vedic tradition. </span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=Mainbody style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;line-height:115%'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p> <p class=Mainbody style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;line-height:115%'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>The GBC assert</span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>s</span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> </span><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>that Srila Prabhupada remaining the  only initiating guru of ISKCON would be </span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'> </span><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'>without precedent</span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'> </span><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'>. However:<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=Mainbody style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;line-height:115%'><b><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>1)</span></b><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> The GBC </span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>has</span><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> stated that ISKCON itself is  without precedent :<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=Mainbody align=left style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right: 0cm;mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;text-align:left; line-height:115%'><i><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> Whereas ISKCON is an unprecedented worldwide Gaudiya Vaisnava mission </span></i><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'><br> (GBC Resolution 316, 2009)<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=Mainbody style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;line-height:115%'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>And the GBC obviously accept</span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>s</span><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> that ISKCON is a bona fide organisation as that is the organisation that </span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>it is</span><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> managing.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=Mainbody style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;line-height:115%'><b><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>2)</span></b><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> The GBC </span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>has</span><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> also stated that </span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>its</span><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> guru system is  without precedent :<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=Mainbody align=left style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right: 0cm;mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;text-align:left; line-height:115%'><i><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> ISKCON s ethos of multiple </span></i><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>diksa<i>- and </i>siksa<i>-gurus serving under the auspices of a global managerial board is unique in the history of Vaisnavism, and so is the challenge it poses. </i><br> (GBC Resolution 318, Part A, 2014)<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=Mainbody style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;line-height:115%'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>The phrase  unique in the history of Vaisnavism means  never happened before , or  without precedent .&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=Mainbody style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;line-height:115%'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>And the GBC obviously accept</span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>s</span><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> that </span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>its</span><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> guru system is bona fide as that is the system </span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language: EN-US'>it itself has</span><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> introduced.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=Mainbody style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;line-height:115%'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Therefore, the GBC accept</span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>s</span><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> that being  without precedent is&nbsp;completely bona fide.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=Mainbody style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;line-height:115%'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Hence, </span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>the GBC</span><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> stating here that Srila Prabhupada remaining the  only initiating guru of ISKCON would be  without precedent </span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>,</span><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> would simply mean that </span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>the GBC</span><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> accept</span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>s</span><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> that this can also similarly be bona fide</span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language: EN-US'>.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;text-align:justify; line-height:115%;layout-grid-mode:char'><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></b></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;line-height:115%; layout-grid-mode:char;background:#FFC000'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>Rather the Vedic tradition is to accept a physically present spiritual master. This is a cornerstone of Vedic principles. This is one point that the <span class=SpellE>impersonalists</span>, personalists, <span class=SpellE>shaktas</span> etc. all agree on<b>.</b> </span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=regparaplusMOSTCOMMON style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right: 0cm;mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;line-height:115%; layout-grid-mode:char'><b><span style='font-size:12.0pt;line-height:115%; font-family:"Georgia",serif'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></b></p> <p class=regparaplusMOSTCOMMON style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right: 0cm;mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;line-height:115%; layout-grid-mode:char'><b><span style='font-size:12.0pt;line-height:115%; font-family:"Georgia",serif'>1)</span></b><span style='font-size:12.0pt; line-height:115%;font-family:"Georgia",serif'> Srila Prabhupada never states that one must  accept a physically present spiritual master , or that this is a  Vedic principle .<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=regparaplusMOSTCOMMON style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right: 0cm;mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;line-height:115%; layout-grid-mode:char'><b><span style='font-size:12.0pt;line-height:115%; font-family:"Georgia",serif'>2)</span></b><span style='font-size:12.0pt; line-height:115%;font-family:"Georgia",serif'> <span style='background:white'>If an instruction is not stated by Srila Prabhupada, then we obviously cannot use this nonexistent instruction to stop following an instruction</span></span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif; background:white'> </span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;line-height:115%; font-family:"Georgia",serif;background:white'> </span><span style='font-size: 12.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;background:white'> </span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Georgia",serif; background:white'>the&nbsp;<i>rtvik</i>&nbsp;system of initiation given in the July 9th, 1977, Directive is</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt; line-height:115%;font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial; color:#222222;background:white'>sued to all the GBCs and Temple Presidents</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif; background:white'> </span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;line-height:115%; font-family:"Georgia",serif;background:white'> </span><span style='font-size: 12.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;background:white'> </span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Georgia",serif; background:white'>which it is not disputed Srila Prabhupada&nbsp;<i>did</i>&nbsp;give.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=regparaplusMOSTCOMMON style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right: 0cm;mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;line-height:115%; layout-grid-mode:char'><b><span style='font-size:12.0pt;line-height:115%; font-family:"Georgia",serif'>3)</span></b><span style='font-size:12.0pt; line-height:115%;font-family:"Georgia",serif'> The fact that there is no evidence from Srila Prabhupada for this  physically present spiritual master claim is shown by the desperation in choosing impersonalists* and <i>shaktas**</i> as authorities for the claim! <o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=regparaplusMOSTCOMMON style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right: 0cm;mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;line-height:115%; layout-grid-mode:char'><i><span style='font-size:10.5pt;line-height:115%; font-family:"Georgia",serif'>*  The impersonalists masquerade as Vedantists, but actually they are defying Vedanta [& ] Lord Caitanya has depicted this impersonalist class of men as more dangerous than the Buddhists. [& ] Therefore Lord Caitanya has warned not to associate with these impersonalist mayavadis because they will spoil one s life by diverting one from devotional service. (Srila Prabhupada Letter, 14/3/69)<o:p></o:p></span></i></p> <p class=regparaplusMOSTCOMMON style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right: 0cm;mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;line-height:115%; layout-grid-mode:char'><i><span style='font-size:10.5pt;line-height:115%; font-family:"Georgia",serif'>** According to ISKCON Educational Services,  the Shakta tradition specifically worships Shiva s consort, in her various forms such as Parvati, Durga, Kali, etc.</span></i><i><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.5pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Georgia",serif; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'> [& ] </span></i><i><span style='font-size:10.5pt; line-height:115%;font-family:"Georgia",serif'>A notable aspect of Shaktism is animal sacrifice and even documented accounts of human sacrifice. <o:p></o:p></span></i></p> <p class=Mainbody style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;line-height:115%'><b><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>4</span></b><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>)</span></b><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> Not only did Srila Prabhupada not teach the need for a physically present spiritual master, but he practically demonstrated the opposite by not physically meeting many of his own disciples and repeatedly preaching the exact opposite:<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=Mainbody align=left style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right: 0cm;mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;text-align:left; line-height:115%'><b><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> So we should associate by the vibration, and not by the physical presence. That is real association. </span></b><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'><br> (Srila Prabhupada Lecture,&nbsp;<i>SB</i>, 18/8/68)<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=Mainbody align=left style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right: 0cm;mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;text-align:left; line-height:115%'><b><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> There are two conceptions of presence</span></b><b><span lang=EN-GB style='font-family: "Times New Roman",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'> </span></b><b><span lang=EN-GB style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'> </span></b><b><span lang=EN-GB style='font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'> </span></b><b><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>the physical conception and the vibrational conception. The physical conception is temporary, whereas the vibrational conception is eternal. [</span></b><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>& </span></b><b><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>] Such association with </span></b><span class=SpellE><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>Krsna</span></b></span><b><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> and the spiritual master should be association by vibration, not physical presence. That is real association. </span></b><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'><br> (<i>Elevation to Krsna Consciousness</i>,&nbsp;Chapter 4)<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;text-align:justify; line-height:115%;layout-grid-mode:char'><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></b></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;text-align:justify; line-height:115%;layout-grid-mode:char;background:#FFC000'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext; background:#FFC000;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>All four Vaishnava sampradayas teach and practice the tradition of accepting initiation in an ongoing <span class=SpellE>disciplic</span> line. Even the Supreme Lord took initiation just to set the example. Rama and <span class=SpellE>Laksman</span> took initiation from <span class=SpellE>Vasistha</span> Muni. Krishna &amp; <span class=SpellE>Balaram</span> took initiation from <span class=SpellE>Sandipani</span> Muni.</span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:black; mso-color-alt:windowtext;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'> </span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=Mainbody style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;text-indent:14.2pt; line-height:115%'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p> <p class=Mainbody style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;text-indent:14.2pt; line-height:115%'><b><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>1)</span></b><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> <i>TFO</i> does not dispute that one must accept an initiating spiritual master. On the contrary, it states that this must be done via Srila Prabhupada.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=Mainbody style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;line-height:115%'><b><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>2)</span></b><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> Hence, the above merely states what <i>TFO</i> <i>agrees </i>with. And it is not possible to <i>defeat TFO</i> by making statements that <u>agree</u> with it! Maybe the GBC should have selected someone to rebut <i>TFO</i> who understands this very elementary point of logic!<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;text-align:justify; line-height:115%;layout-grid-mode:char'><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></b></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;line-height:115%; layout-grid-mode:char;background:#FFC000'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'> Just try to learn the truth by approaching a spiritual master. Inquire from him submissively and render service unto him. The self-realized souls can impart knowledge unto you because they have seen the truth. <br> BG 4.34<br> <br> <span class=SpellE>Srila</span> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada</span>:  One who is now the disciple is the next spiritual master. <br> <span class=SpellE>Srimad</span> Bhagavatam 2.9.43 Purport</span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;line-height:115%; layout-grid-mode:char'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>1)</span></b><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> Please note that the first quote is the changed version from the  edited <i>Bhagavad-gita</i>. However, neither of these two quotes prevents Srila Prabhupada </span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>from </span><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>remaining the <i>diksa</i> guru of ISKCON.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>2)</span></b><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> Hence, putting forward statements that do not in any way challenge <i>TFO</i> will mean <i>TFO</i> is not challenged, but rather remains standing, undefeated. Maybe the GBC should have selected someone to rebut <i>TFO</i> who understands this very elementary point of logic!<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;line-height:115%; layout-grid-mode:char'><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></b></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;line-height:115%; layout-grid-mode:char;background:#FFC000'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>During his lifetime, <span class=SpellE>Srila</span> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada</span> prepared his disciples to take the role of guru after his departure.<br> Mohsin Hassan: After you, is there any decision being made who will take over? <br> Room conversation July 18th, 1971. <br> <span class=SpellE>Srila</span> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada s</span> reply:<br>  Yes. All of them will take over. These students, who are initiated from me, all of them will act as I am doing.</span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext;mso-ansi-language:EN-ZA'> </span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:black; mso-color-alt:windowtext;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>Just like I have got many Godbrothers, they are all acting. Similarly, all these disciples <span class=GramE>which</span> I am making, initiating, they are being trained to become future spiritual masters& <br> Whoever is initiated, he is competent to make disciples. But as a matter of <span class=GramE>etiquette</span> they do not do so in the presence of their spiritual master. This is the etiquette. Otherwise, they are competent. They can make disciples and spread. </span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>1)</span></b><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> Srila Prabhupada answers that:<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> <u>all</u> of them <u>will</u> act as I am doing .<o:p></o:p></span></b></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>If this was referring to acting as <i>diksa</i> guru, then it would mean that every single disciple of Srila Prabhupada *must* become a <i>diksa</i> guru, since Srila Prabhupada states that  all  will act. However, even the GBC does not agree that every disciple must definitely become a <i>diksa</i> guru. Indeed, the GBC has gone out of its way to make sure this does *not* happen, ensuring that only a select few are authorised to become GBC <i style='mso-bidi-font-style: normal'>diksa</i> gurus in ISKCON.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>2)</span></b><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> The second part of the answer quoted above, which begins </span><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> </span></b><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>W</span></b><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>hoever is initiated&  </span></b><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>, is actually only *half* of the answer to another</span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>, </span><u><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>different</span></u><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> question, and both the full answer and this other question have deliberately been <u>cut out</u> from the above  reply from Srila Prabhupada. The question, and full reply, <u>unedited</u>, are as follows:<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm;text-indent:14.2pt'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Mohsin Hassan:</span></b><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> </span><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight: normal'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language: EN-US'> </span></b><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>You have ten <i>swamis</i>. And outside of <i>swamis</i>, what s the lower& </span></b><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight: normal'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language: EN-US'> </span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm;text-indent:14.2pt'><span class=SpellE><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight: normal'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language: EN-US'>Srila</span></b></span><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'> </span></b><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Prabhupada:</span></b><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> </span><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight: normal'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language: EN-US'> </span></b><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Now, they re competent. They can& , not only the <i>swamis</i>, even the <i>g</i></span></b><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight: normal'><i><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language: EN-US'>r</span></i></b><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><i><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>hasthas</span></i></b><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>, they are called <i>dasa adhikari</i>, and <i>brahmacaris</i>, everyone can, whoever is initiated, he is competent to make disciple. But as a matter of etiquette they do not do so in the presence of their spiritual master. This is the etiquette. Otherwise, they are competent. They can make disciples and spread. Become, too whom, I mean, recruit more members in this. They do, but they are being trained up. Just like here in this meeting, one of my disciples, he is acting as priest. Instead of myself; he is acting. So some of my students, they are acting as priest, some of them are <i>swamis</i>. So they are competent to make disciples.</span></b><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight: normal'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language: EN-US'> </span></b><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>a)</span></b><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> Srila Prabhupada is explaining that the right to  make disciples is not limited to  <i>swamis</i> , but rather is open to everyone who is initiated. This is a point of general principle.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>b)</span></b><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> Srila Prabhupada then continues to answer by equating  to make disciple with  make disciples and spread and  recruit more members , which Srila Prabhupada states is also being done by his disciples.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Therefore, rather than this being a directive for every initiated person to automatically become a <i>diksa</i> guru as soon as Srila Prabhupada physically departs, Srila Prabhupada is instead just giving a very general answer regarding broad principles to a </span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>student</span><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> visitor, Mohsin Hassan, who knew very little about the movement.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;text-align:justify; line-height:115%;layout-grid-mode:char'><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></b></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;line-height:115%; layout-grid-mode:char;background:#FFC000'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'> We are interested in preparing acharya [guru], but the etiquette is, at least for the period the guru is present, one should not become acharya. Even if he is <span class=GramE>complete</span> he should not, because the etiquette is, if somebody comes for becoming initiated, it is the duty of such person to bring that perspective candidate to his acharya&  <br> Lecture April 6th, 1975<br> <br>  And to become acharya is not very difficult. <span class=GramE>First of all</span>, to become very faithful servant of your acharya, follow strictly what he says. Try to please him and spread <span class=SpellE>Krsna</span> consciousness. That s all. It is not at all difficult&  <br> April 6, 1975, <span class=SpellE>Srila</span> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada s</span> public lecture in Mayapur</span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;line-height:115%; layout-grid-mode:char'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Both quotes above are from the same passage, and Srila Prabhupada states that to become  <i>acarya</i> requires that one must  follow strictly one s own </span><i><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>A</span></i><i><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>carya</span></i><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'>, which for ISKCON is Srila Prabhupada. But, Srila Prabhupada, the <i>Acarya</i>, never gave any orders where he states:<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#222222'>a)</span></b><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#222222'> That he is renouncing his position as ISKCON s <i>diksa</i> guru;</span><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif; mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;color:#222222'><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#222222'>b)</span></b><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#222222'> That he instead will be succeeded as ISKCON s&nbsp;<i>diksa</i>&nbsp;guru by someone else.</span><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;color:#222222'><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#222222'>Without such orders, there is no question of one taking Srila Prabhupada s position as ISKCON s <i>diksa</i> guru. And the slideshow has yet to present such orders. Rather, above, Srila Prabhupada only states that such  <i>acaryas</i> in ISKCON should just  spread Krsna consciousness .</span><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;color:#222222'><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;line-height:115%; layout-grid-mode:char'><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></b></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;line-height:115%; layout-grid-mode:char;background:#FFC000'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'> Every student is expected to become Acharya. Acharya means one who knows the scriptural injunctions and follows them practically in life, and teaches them to his disciples& Keep trained up very rigidly and then you are <span class=SpellE>bonafide</span> Guru, and you can accept disciples on the same principle& I want to see my disciples become bona fide Spiritual Master and spread <span class=SpellE>Krsna</span> consciousness very widely, that will make me and <span class=SpellE>Krsna</span> very happy. <br> Letter to <span class=SpellE>Tusta</span> Krishna/December 2nd, 1975<br> <br> <span class=SpellE>Srila</span> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada</span> was completely consistent in his statements about his vision for the continuation of the <span class=SpellE>disciplic</span> succession after his departure.</span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>This is the 3rd quote presented as  evidence for supposed <i>diksa</i> guru succession of Srila Prabhupada on his physical departure. We just saw earlier that the first quote presented, the discussion with Mohsin Hassan that begins  whoever is initiated , was edited, in that the full quote was not presented in order to give a misleading picture. The same has been done here, since the full quote above is actually as follows:<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> Keep trained up very rigidly and then you are bona fide Guru, and you can accept disciples on the same principle. <u>But as a matter of etiquette it is the custom that during the lifetime of your Spiritual master you bring the prospective disciples to him, and in his absence or disappearance you can accept disciples without any limitation. This is the law of disciplic succession.</u> I want to see my disciples become bona fide Spiritual Master and spread Krishna consciousness very widely, that will make me and Krishna very happy. <o:p></o:p></span></b></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>The part underlined has been deliberately cut out. The reason for this deliberate omission is because the GBC does not even believe in or follow this  law of disciplic succession , having decreed that one can become a <i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>diksa</i> guru in the physical presence of one s own spiritual master, as standard. Please see GBC 2021 Resolutions 701.02 and 702.02. Thus, the GBC is putting forward a  quote which it itself does not believe needs to be followed! Hence, the GBC cannot claim as evidence that which it itself does not accept is evidence!<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;text-align:justify; line-height:115%;layout-grid-mode:char'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;line-height:115%; layout-grid-mode:char;background:#FFC000'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>Vedic tradition<br> <br> Following these instructions, and the example shown in Vedic culture since time immemorial, some of <span class=SpellE>Srila</span> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada s</span> disciples, after his departure, have become gurus and accepted disciples of their own. </span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>We have just seen that in regards to the three  instructions </span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>that</span><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> have been put forward:<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>1)</span></b><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> The first one,  Mohsin Hassan , when it is presented in *full*, is *not* an order for every single disciple to automatically become a <i>diksa</i> guru successor, but rather is just a general explanation of the principle that there is no discrimination amongst non-<i>sannyasi</i> disciples.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>2)</span></b><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> The second quote,  <i>acaryas</i> , just talks about everyone becoming an  <i>acarya</i> in general by preaching.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>3)</span></b><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> And the last quote,  the law of disciplic succession , the GBC does not even believe in!<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Hence, there are no instructions presented which order Srila Prabhupada s disciples to replace him as ISKCON s <i>Acarya</i> and <i>diksa</i> guru.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;text-align:justify; line-height:115%;layout-grid-mode:char'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;text-align:justify; line-height:115%;layout-grid-mode:char;background:#FFC000'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>Not <span class=GramE>all of</span> these gurus have lived up to their responsibilities and this has naturally caused disturbances. But because <span class=SpellE>rtvikism</span> violates both the Vedic principle of <span class=SpellE>disciplic</span> succession and <span class=SpellE>Srila</span> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada s</span> direct instruction that his disciples become regular gurus, ISKCON has rejected it. </span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;text-align:justify; line-height:115%;layout-grid-mode:char'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>It is claimed that  <i>rtvikism</i> , or Srila Prabhupada acting as ISKCON s <i>diksa</i> guru:<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>1)</span></b><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'>  violates the principle of  disciplic succession . However, no proof for this assertion is given. Rather, at the very outset, we only saw the slideshow falsely claim that the IRM states that the disciplic succession should have  ended with Srila Prabhupada. If one simply lies, one can claim anything. But the purpose of this slideshow was supposed to be to address <i>TFO</i>, not just lie about it.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>2)</span></b><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'>  violates Srila Prabhupada s  direct instruction that his disciples become regular gurus . But, again, this is another fantasy, as no such  direct instruction has been presented. Indeed, the term  regular gurus has not even been mentioned by the presentation thus far.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;text-align:justify; line-height:115%;layout-grid-mode:char'><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></b></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;text-align:justify; line-height:115%;layout-grid-mode:char;background:#FFC000'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>Rather than whimsically changing the instructions of <span class=SpellE>Srila</span> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada</span>, as the advocates of the <span class=SpellE>rtvik</span> theory have done, ISKCON prefers to address these problems by making better efforts to follow his instructions and to come to the standard he gave us.</span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>As we just noted, there are no  instructions of Srila Prabhupada that have been presented </span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>that</span><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> we are  changing . Srila Prabhupada remaining the <i>Acarya</i> and <i>diksa</i> guru of his ISKCON Society from 1966 onwards did not lead to Srila Prabhupada  changing his own instructions. And him remaining as ISKCON s <i>Acarya</i> and <i>diksa</i> guru does not lead to him changing his instructions now either.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;text-align:justify; line-height:115%;layout-grid-mode:char'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;line-height:115%; layout-grid-mode:char;background:#FFC000'><span class=SpellE><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>Rtvik</span></span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'> heresy<br> <br> Advocates of the <span class=SpellE>rtvik</span> theory seek to justify their cause solely through a distorted and false interpretation of a single letter written by <span class=SpellE>Srila</span> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada s</span> secretary on July 9, 1977. The July 9th letter does not mention <span class=SpellE>Srila</span> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada s</span> <span class=GramE>departure</span> nor does it refer to how he intended initiations to go on after his physical departure. </span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;text-align:justify; line-height:115%;layout-grid-mode:char'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>1)</span></b><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> Basing one s entire presentation on lying, by making false statements regarding what the  <i>rtvik</i> theory claims, is a sure recipe for failure. The result of making such false statements, by definition, is a false presentation. The slideshow did this at the very outset by falsely claiming that we state that the disciplic succession  ended with Srila Prabhupada. And the slideshow does it again here by falsely claiming that the  <i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>rtvik</i> theory depends  solely on a  single letter . If one actually reads <i>TFO</i> or <i>BTP</i>, one will see that we present many evidences. The <i>BTP</i> <i>Special Issue,</i> for example, alone presents 6 proofs, only one of which is the July 9th, 1977, letter.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>2)</span></b><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> It is admitted that the July 9th, 1977, letter does not mention Srila Prabhupada s departure. Therefore, the letter does not, and cannot, direct that its instructions should be terminated on Srila Prabhupada s physical departure, because it does not even mention Srila Prabhupada s departure.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>3)</span></b><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> Srila Prabhupada s instructions for *ISKCON* were intended to be applied *for* and *in* ISKCON. The July 9th, 1977, letter was such an instruction, since it specifically states the initiation system to be applied in ISKCON. By admitting that this instruction does not reference its applicability to Srila Prabhupada s physical departure, the slideshow merely confirms that the July 9th, 1977, instructions were *not* tied to Srila Prabhupada s physical departure. Hence, Srila Prabhupada s physical departure has no relevance to their applicability in ISKCON. Which means they are to be applied in ISKCON, regardless of Srila Prabhupada s physical departure. Otherwise, every single instruction Srila Prabhupada gave for ISKCON would have needed to be terminated on Srila Prabhupada s physical departure. Which in turn would effectively have rendered ISKCON itself non-existent on Srila Prabhupada s physical departure, as there would no longer have remained any instructions that </span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>would have needed</span><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> to be followed in ISKCON in order to keep it functioning.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;text-align:justify; line-height:115%;layout-grid-mode:char'><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></b></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;text-align:justify; line-height:115%;layout-grid-mode:char;background:#FFC000'><span class=SpellE><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:black; mso-color-alt:windowtext;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>Srila</span></span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada</span> directed that <span class=GramE>a number of</span> his senior disciples should answer the letters and conduct initiation ceremonies on his behalf, with the new initiates becoming <span class=SpellE>Srila</span> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada s</span> disciples. So <u>yes</u>, <span class=SpellE>Srila</span> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada</span> established a <span class=SpellE>rtvik</span> or proxy system in the latter part of 1977. It was for the few months he remained physically present and because the etiquette is that one does not initiate while one s own diksha guru is still present.</span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;text-align:justify; line-height:115%;layout-grid-mode:char'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>1)</span></b><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> The slideshow bases its entire conclusion regarding the July 9th, 1977, letter on the unsubstantiated assertion that Srila Prabhupada established the <i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>rtvik</i> system  for the few months he remained physically present . However, neither Srila Prabhupada nor the July 9th, 1977, letter state this. One has to prove one s assertions with *evidence*. If it was sufficient to simply claim whatever one wants to believe, then there would be no need to even make this slide presentation. The GBC can simply claim  we are right, and everyone else is wrong. End of. Which, by presenting no evidence for any of its assertions, is what this slideshow is effectively doing, only in a very long-winded and repetitive way. Such a presentation, however, will not appeal to any follower of Srila Prabhupada, who will expect all assertions to be substantiated by statements from Srila Prabhupada.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>2)</span></b><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> The  etiquette that one  does not initiate while one s own <i>diksha</i> guru is still present is correct. However, one also  does not initiate unless one has been authorised by one s own <i>diksa</i> guru to become a <i>diksa</i> guru:<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> One should take initiation from a bona fide spiritual master coming in the disciplic succession, who is authori</span></b><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>z</span></b><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>ed by his predecessor spiritual master. This is called <i>diksa</i> <i>vidhana</i>. </span></b><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'><br> (<i>SB</i>, 4.8.54, purport)<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD align=left style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;text-align:left'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight: normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> A </span></b><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>g</span></b><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>uru can be</span></b><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight: normal'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language: EN-US'>come g</span></b><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>uru when he</span></b><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'> </span></b><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>s ordered by his </span></b><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>g</span></b><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>uru.&nbsp;That s all.&nbsp;Otherwise nobody can become </span></b><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>g</span></b><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>uru. </span></b><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'><br> (S</span><span class=SpellE><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>rila</span></span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'> </span><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'>P</span><span class=SpellE><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>rabhupada</span></span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'> Lecture</span><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>, <i>Bg</i>.</span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>,</span><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> 28</span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>/10/</span><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>75)<b><o:p></o:p></b></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD align=left style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;text-align:left'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight: normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> Self</span></b><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>-</span></b><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>made </span></b><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight: normal'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language: EN-US'>g</span></b><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>uru cannot be </span></b><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>g</span></b><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>uru. He must be authori</span></b><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>z</span></b><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>ed by the bona fide </span></b><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>g</span></b><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>uru. Then he s </span></b><span class=SpellE><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>gu</span></b></span><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>ru.&nbsp; This is the fact</span></b><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'> [& ] </span></b><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Similarly, bona fide </span></b><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>g</span></b><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>uru means he must be authori</span></b><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>z</span></b><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>ed by the superior </span></b><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>g</span></b><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>uru. </span></b><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'><br> (S</span><span class=SpellE><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>rila</span></span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada</span> Lecture, <i>Nectar of Devotion</i></span><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>, 31</span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language: EN-US'>/10/</span><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>72)<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>But no such <i>diksa</i> guru authorisation was given, either in this July 9th, 1977, letter or elsewhere. We earlier extensively documented that no such <i>diksa</i> guru order has been presented by this slideshow.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;text-align:justify; line-height:115%;layout-grid-mode:char'><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></b></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;line-height:115%; layout-grid-mode:char;background:#FFC000'><u><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>The history<br> <br> </span></u><span class=SpellE><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif; color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>Srila</span></span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada</span> asked the GBC members in <span class=SpellE>Vrindaban</span> to come to him with questions on any major points they wanted clarification and confirmation on. The conversation, the questions and <span class=SpellE>Srila</span> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada s</span> answers, were recorded on May 28th, 1977. One of those questions the GBC asked of <span class=SpellE>Srila</span> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada</span> was:  Then our next question concerns initiations in the future, particularly at that time when you re no longer with us. We want to know how <span class=GramE>first</span> and second initiation would be conducted. <u><br> <br> <span class=SpellE>Srila</span> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada s</span> answer<b>:</b><br> </u><span class=SpellE>Srila</span> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada</span> starts by explain [sic] the system to be practiced while he is still physically present: <u><br> </u><span class=SpellE>Satvarupa</span>: Then what is the relationship of that person who gives the initiation and the& <u><br> </u><span class=SpellE>Srila</span> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada</span>: He s guru. He s guru.<u><br> </u>[& ]</span><u><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></u></p> <p class=regparaplusMOSTCOMMON style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right: 0cm;mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;line-height:115%; layout-grid-mode:char'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;line-height:115%; font-family:"Georgia",serif'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>1)</span></b><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> The question directly asks how initiations would be conducted  particularly at that time when you re no longer with us . Clearly, if Srila Prabhupada s answer to this is  <i>rtvik</i> , it completely destroys the GBC s guru hoax. <o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>2)</span></b><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> And that <i>is</i> what Srila Prabhupada answers, for this is his immediate and actual answer to the question asked:<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD align=left style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;text-align:left;text-indent:14.2pt'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Srila Prabhupada:</span></b><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>  Yes. I shall recommend some of you. After this is settled up I shall recommend some of you to act as officiating </span><i><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>a</span></i><i><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>carya</span></i><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'>. <o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD align=left style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;text-align:left;text-indent:14.2pt'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Tamal Krsna Goswami:</span></b><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>  Is that called<i> rtvik </i></span><i><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>a</span></i><i><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>carya</span></i><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>? <o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD align=left style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;text-align:left;text-indent:14.2pt'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Srila Prabhupada:</span></b><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>  <i>Rtvik</i>. Yes. <br> (May 28th, 1977, Conversation)<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>So, this does completely destroy the GBC s guru hoax as Srila Prabhupada s answer to how initiations would be conducted after he is  particularly  no longer with us is  <i>rtvik</i> . <o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>3)</span></b><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> And the GBC <i>also knows this</i>, because the slideshow deliberately <u style='text-underline:thick'>deletes this answer</u>, and instead claims as shown above that Srila Prabhupada s <i>answer</i> is actually <i>Satsva</i></span><span class=SpellE><i><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>ru</span></i></span><i><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>pa</span></i><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> asking another <i>question!</i> Thus, the slideshow deliberately deletes Srila Prabhupada s words in the hope that no one will bother to read anything other than the slideshow. This is the same approach of relying on the audience s ignorance that caused all the previous GBC attempts to answer the  <i>rtvik</i> theory , or <i>TFO,</i> to fail, and that is why this slideshow also similarly fails.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;text-align:justify; line-height:115%;layout-grid-mode:char'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;line-height:115%; layout-grid-mode:char;background:#FFC000'><span class=SpellE><u><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>Srila</span></u></span><u><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada s</span> answer<b>:<br> </b></span></u><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif; color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><br> <span class=SpellE>Srila</span> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada</span> starts by explain [sic] the system to be practiced while he is still physically present: <b><u><br> </u></b><span class=SpellE>Satvarupa</span>: Then what is the relationship of that person who gives the initiation and the& <b><u><br> </u></b><span class=SpellE>Srila</span> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada</span>: He s guru. He s guru.<b><u><br> </u></b><span class=SpellE>Satsvarupa</span>: But he does it on your behalf.<b><u><br> </u></b><span class=SpellE>Srila</span> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada</span>: Yes. That is formality. Because in my presence one should not become guru, so on my behalf, on my order& Amara <span class=SpellE>ajnaya</span> guru <span class=SpellE>hana</span>. Be <span class=GramE>actually guru</span>, but by my order& </span><b><u><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></u></b></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;text-align:justify; line-height:115%;layout-grid-mode:char'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>1)</span></b><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> We just noted that the  <i>rtvik</i> answer Srila Prabhupada <i>actually </i>gave was in response to how initiations would be conducted for  particularly at that time when you re no longer with us . The slideshow not only deleted this answer, but also claims that Srila Prabhupada was answering for  while he is still physically present . But this is another fabrication, because Srila Prabhupada does not state that he is answering *only* for his physical presence. Rather, he was asked specifically for  particularly at that time when you re no longer with us , and that is the question he answered.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>2)</span></b><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> The <i>rtviks</i> Srila Prabhupada states he will appoint to conduct initiations for  particularly at that time when you re no longer with us , were to *begin* conducting initiations *whilst* Srila Prabhupada was still physically present, on July 9th, 1977. Consequently, *2* subsequent questions later, Satsvarupa asks *another* question about  But he does it on your behalf , and in response to <i>that </i>question, Srila Prabhupada re-iterates that one does not become guru either in his physical presence *or* without an order to do so: </span><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> Because in my presence one should not become guru, so on my behalf, on my order& <i>Amara ajnaya guru hana</i>. Be <u>actually</u> guru, <u>but</u> by my order. </span></b><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;text-align:justify; line-height:115%;layout-grid-mode:char'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;line-height:115%; layout-grid-mode:char;background:#FFC000'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>After explaining how initiations would go on while he was still physically present, <span class=SpellE>Srila</span> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada</span> then states how initiations should go on when he was no longer physically present.<br> <br> Tamal <span class=SpellE>Krsna</span>:<span style='mso-spacerun:yes'>� </span>& The people who they give diksha to, whose disciple are they?<br> <span class=SpellE>Srila</span> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada</span>: They re his disciple.<br> Tamal <span class=SpellE>Krsna</span>: They re his disciple?<br> <span class=SpellE>Srila</span> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada</span>: Who is initiating. He is <span class=GramE>grand-disciple</span>.<br> <span class=SpellE>Srila</span> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada</span>: When I order,  You become guru , he becomes regular guru. That s all. He becomes disciple of my disciple. That s it.<br> ****<br> <span class=SpellE>Srila</span> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada</span> maintained the Vedic tradition<br> His disciples should become regular gurus, with disciples of their own, but only after his departure and only if they were qualified.</span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;text-align:justify; line-height:115%;layout-grid-mode:char'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>1)</span></b><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> We just saw that the slideshow fabricated that in the first part of the May 28th, 1977, conversation, Srila Prabhupada was hitherto *only* answering in regards to how initiations would be conducted during his physical presence, despite him having been asked *the exact opposite*, i.e. how would initiations be conducted  particularly at that time when you re no longer with us ! Now, the slideshow fabricates that suddenly now, and only now, is Srila Prabhupada going to talk *only* about his physical absence even though neither Srila Prabhupada nor the questioner states this. <o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>2)</span></b><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> However, the statement </span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>that</span><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> Srila Prabhupada actually makes does not match at all the words that the slideshow has decided to put into Srila Prabhupada s mouth:<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>a)</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'> </span><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Srila Prabhupada does <i>not</i> say  He is before the word  grand-disciple , because:<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>i)</span></b><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> Srila Prabhupada only speaks <u style='text-underline:thick'>one</u> word before saying  grand-disciple , rather than <u style='text-underline: thick'>two</u> words.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>ii)</span></b><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'><span style='mso-spacerun:yes'>� </span>That one word is  his .<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>One can listen for oneself to Srila Prabhupada speaking this one word rather than two words, by going to the audio clip here:</span><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif; color:blue'> <o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'><a href="https://www.iskconirm.com/his"><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'>iskconirm.com/his</b></a></span><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></b></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>The significance of the GBC making this change was explained in the <i>BTP</i> 52 article  Zonal <i>Acarya</i> Hoax Revival Continues! , which can be read here:</span><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:blue'> <o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'><a href="https://www.iskconirm.com/btp52"><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'>iskconirm.com/btp52</b></a></span><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>As we saw in this and the previous section, when your case relies on needing to delete and change Srila Prabhupada s words, then it proves you have no case. Otherwise, one could just be honest and present Srila Prabhupada s words truthfully: one would not need to cheat and doctor Srila Prabhupada s words.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>b)</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'> The slideshow claims that <span class=SpellE>Srila</span> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada</span> states:<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'> His disciples should become regular gurus .<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>But <span class=SpellE>Srila</span> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada</span> does not state this. He simply states that </span><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'> When I order you become guru, he becomes regular guru </span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>. Thus, he is stating that a regular guru emerges <i>when</i> he orders this. He does not state  his disciples should become regular gurus . These are two completely different things:<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><span class=SpellE><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>Srila</span></span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada</span>: When I order -&gt; regular guru.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>Slideshow: His disciples should become regular gurus.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>Because <span class=SpellE>Srila</span> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada</span> is not stating one *should* become anything. <span class=SpellE>Srila</span> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada</span> is only stating that one does become a regular guru <span class=GramE>if and when</span> he orders this.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>c)</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'> The slideshow also falsely claims that <span class=SpellE>Srila</span> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada</span> is stating that his disciples  should become gurus  only after his departure and only if they were qualified .<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>But there is no mention here of  departure or  qualification . Indeed, departure is only mentioned by the questioner, <span class=SpellE>Satsvarupa</span>, right at the very outset, when he asks about initiations  particularly at that time when you re no longer with us , and to which <span class=SpellE>Srila</span> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada</span> answers  officiating <span class=SpellE><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>acarya</i></span> <span class=GramE>/ </span><span class=SpellE><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>rtvik</i></span> .<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>Thus, there are at least *5* deviations here by the slideshow from what <span class=SpellE>Srila</span> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada</span> <span class=GramE>actually states</span>:<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><span class=SpellE><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>i</span></b></span><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>)</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'> <span class=SpellE>Srila</span> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada</span> does not state  he is <span class=SpellE>granddisciple</span>.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>ii)</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'> <span class=SpellE>Srila</span> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada</span> does not state  should become .<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>iii)</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'> <span class=SpellE>Srila</span> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada</span> does not mention  departure here.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>iv)</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'> <span class=SpellE>Srila</span> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada</span> does not mention  qualified here.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>v)</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'> <span class=SpellE>Srila</span> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada</span> <i>does</i> mention him needing to give an order first, which the slideshow does not comment on at all!<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;text-align:justify; line-height:115%;layout-grid-mode:char'><b><u><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>Summary</span></u></b><b><u><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></u></b></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>In summary, just for this very short passage, the slideshow has engaged in *numerous* bouts of cheating:<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>1)</span></b><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> It had to delete Srila Prabhupada s  <i>rtvik</i> answer for  particularly at that time when you re no longer with us .<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>2)</span></b><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> It had to claim that Srila Prabhupada s answer was for his physical presence, i.e. the *exact opposite* time period to the  particularly at that time when you re no longer with us time period he was actually asked about.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>3)</span></b><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> It had to change Srila Prabhupada s one word  his into two words  he is .<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>4)</span></b><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> It had to *insert*  should become , because Srila Prabhupada said no such thing.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>5)</span></b><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> It had to *insert*  departure , because Srila Prabhupada did not state this.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>6)</span></b><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> It had to *insert*  qualified , because Srila Prabhupada did not state this.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>7)</span></b><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> It had to *omit* Srila Prabhupada stating  when I order .<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>In this way, Srila Prabhupada s <i>rtvik</i> order for  particularly at that time when you re no longer with us becomes magically transformed into a  <i>diksa</i> guru order . If you cheat and change what Srila Prabhupada *actually* states, then of course you can make him  say whatever you want!<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;text-align:justify; line-height:115%;layout-grid-mode:char'><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></b></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;text-align:justify; line-height:115%;layout-grid-mode:char;background:#FFC000'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>If <span class=SpellE>Srila</span> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada</span> were proposing such a drastic break from Vedic tradition, after so carefully presenting <span class=GramE>all of</span> other aspects of philosophy and practice, one would expect to find many statements by him on this topic.</span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;text-align:justify; line-height:115%;layout-grid-mode:char'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>1)</span></b><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> We already saw that this so-called  tradition was substantiated not by any statements from Srila Prabhupada but by an appeal to  impersonalists and  <i>shaktas</i> .<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>2)</span></b><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> Thus, one cannot speak about a  drastic break from a  tradition that one cannot even quote Srila Prabhupada stating he is following! Hence, there would not even be anything for him to break from or speak about not following.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;text-align:justify; line-height:115%;layout-grid-mode:char'><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></b></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;text-align:justify; line-height:115%;layout-grid-mode:char;background:#FFC000'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>Yet the advocates of the <span class=SpellE>rtvik</span> theory have never produced even a single statement by <span class=SpellE>Srila</span> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada</span> in which he says that he would continue to initiate disciples after his physical departure.</span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;text-align:justify; line-height:115%;layout-grid-mode:char'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>We just noted that when asked how initiations would be conducted  particularly at that time when you re no longer with us , Srila Prabhupada *does* answer with  officiating <i>acarya</i> /</span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'> </span><i><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>rtvik</span></i><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> , thereby affirming that he would continue to initiate disciples via <i>rtviks</i> after his physical departure. An answer so damning, that, as we saw earlier, the GBC was compelled to delete it! In addition, the above argument put forward by the slideshow is a logical fallacy known as  assuming that which needs to be proven :<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>1)</span></b><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> The above argument *assumes* that Srila Prabhupada must stop initiating once he physically departs.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>2)</span></b><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> Only if such an assumption is true would Srila Prabhupada need to counter such an assumption and state the opposite</span><span style='font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'> </span><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> </span><span style='font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'> </span><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>that he would *continue* to initiate.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>3)</span></b><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> But if such an assumption is not correct then there would be nothing for Srila Prabhupada to counter, nor would he need to state that he can *continue* to initiate, when there is no bar on him initiating to begin with.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Yet, the GBC s whole case depends on this unsubstantiated assumption, that the spiritual master must stop initiating as soon as he physically departs. Without it, they have no case. Hence, they are forced to just *assume* that this assertion is true, since they have no evidence to prove that the assertion is true.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;text-align:justify; line-height:115%;layout-grid-mode:char'><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></b></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;line-height:115%; layout-grid-mode:char;background:#FFC000'><span class=SpellE><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>Rtvik</span></span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'> heresy<br> <br> Advocates of the <span class=SpellE>rtvik</span> theory think they are glorifying <span class=SpellE>Srila</span> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada</span> but what they are <span class=GramE>actually saying</span> is: <br> <span class=SpellE><i>Srila</i></span><i> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupad</span> [sic] was so spiritually powerful and potent, yet he could not produce one single disciple qualified to become a regular guru and accept disciples. </i><br> Followers of the <span class=SpellE>rtvik</span> theory may believe that <span class=SpellE>Srila</span> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada</span> accepts them as initiated disciples, but where is the tangible confirmation of this? Rather, this view is only their wishful thinking. </span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;text-align:justify; line-height:115%;layout-grid-mode:char'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>1)</span></b><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> We are not stating this at all. This is yet another example of needing to ascribe a false statement to us, because what we do state cannot be answered.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>2)</span></b><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> It is possible for Srila Prabhupada to both be spiritually potent and also remain the <i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>Acarya</i> and <i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>diksa</i> guru of ISKCON. What matters is that we must simply follow what he ordered, rather than speculate about what someone else is supposedly claiming, even though they do not claim it! If the GBC had any actual evidence from Srila Prabhupada, it would just present that, rather than instead try to compensate for such a lack of evidence with fanciful speculative theories regarding what we do *not* claim.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>3)</span></b><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> Srila Prabhupada stated via the July 9th, 1977, directive that he will accept anyone as his initiated disciple, as long as they are recommended by the Temple President, and they would then be given a spiritual name by the <i>rtvik</i> representative. Thus, the actual  wishful thinking is the slideshow pretending that such an arrangement does not exist.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;text-align:justify; line-height:115%;layout-grid-mode:char'><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></b></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;line-height:115%; layout-grid-mode:char;background:#FFC000'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>In 1990 the GBC officially rejected the <span class=SpellE>rtvik</span> philosophy, concluding that it violates the Vedic system and <span class=SpellE>Srila</span> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada s</span> direct instructions. <br> <br> <u>GBC resolution</u><br> <i>The doctrine that <span class=SpellE>Srila</span> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada</span> continues to initiate direct diksha disciples after his departure from this world through officiating priests (<span class=SpellE>rtviks</span>) is a dangerous philosophical deviation. It is totally prohibited in ISKCON. No devotee shall participate in such posthumous <span class=SpellE>rtvik</span> initiation ceremonies in any capacity, including acting as <span class=SpellE>rtvik</span>, initiate, assistant, organizer, or financier. No ISKCON devotee shall advocate or support its practice.</i><br> ***<br> Change the practice and the lineage is lost. Lose the lineage and we are lost. We would be flying blind.</span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;text-align:justify; line-height:115%;layout-grid-mode:char'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>1)</span></b><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> One can note the extreme weakness of the GBC s case that it is already just stating its belief, having failed to put forward any evidence for this belief!<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>2)</span></b><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> It is the GBC that has changed the  practice by replacing Srila Prabhupada with its many  colourful voted-in gurus, resulting in a  lineage in which the members of the <i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>parampara</i>, according to </span><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'><a href="https://www.iskconirm.com/docs/webpages/js_index.htm">HH Jayadvaita Swami</a></span></b><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>, have behaved as follows:<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD align=left style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;text-align:left'><i><span lang=EN style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN'> FACT:&nbsp;ISKCON gurus have usurped and misused <span class=GramE>money, and</span> diverted other ISKCON resources for their own personal prestige and&nbsp;sense gratification.<br> FACT:&nbsp;ISKCON gurus have had illicit sexual intercourse with both women and men, and possibly children as well. </span></i><span lang=EN style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN'><br> (<i>Where the&nbsp;</i><span class=SpellE>Ritvik</span><i>&nbsp;People are Right</i>, <span class=SpellE>Jayadvaita</span> Swami, 1996)&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>3)</span></b><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> It is the IRM that is calling for no change to the practice, and for the lineage to stay the same</span><span style='font-family: "Times New Roman",serif'> </span><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> </span><span style='font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'> </span><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'>with Srila Prabhupada as the <i>Acarya</i> and <i>diksa</i> guru of ISKCON as he has always been.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;text-align:justify; line-height:115%;layout-grid-mode:char'><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></b></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;text-align:justify; line-height:115%;layout-grid-mode:char;background:#FFC000'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>Amongst gurus in a sampradaya, the founder-acharya holds a special position. He is the <span class=SpellE>siksha</span> guru for all the following members of his line.</span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;text-align:justify; line-height:115%;layout-grid-mode:char'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>He is also the <i>diksa</i> guru as well. So states both Srila Prabhupada and the GBC, as documented in the book:<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'><a href="https://www.iskconirm.com/docs/webpages/founder_acarya_book.html"><i>Srila Prabhupada: The Founder-</i>Acarya<i> of ISKCON</i><i><span style='font-family: "Times New Roman",serif'> </span> </i><i><span style='font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'> </span>Presenting the Conclusions of the GBC Foundational Document</i></a>.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;text-align:justify; line-height:115%;layout-grid-mode:char'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;line-height:115%; layout-grid-mode:char;background:#FFC000'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'> The mystery of the sampradaya <br> BG 18.75 / purport<br> <br> The experience is direct via the spiritual master. As glasses serve as a medium to bring an object into focus.<br> **<br>  You should always pray to His Divine Grace because naturally he will be more affectionate to you than me. <span class=GramE>Generally</span> one is more affectionate to the grandchildren than to the children directly. <span class=GramE>So</span> I am sure that my Guru Maharaj will be easily inclined to your prayers than that of mine. You will do good always by offering your prayers to His Divine Grace <span class=SpellE>Bhaktisiddhanta</span> Goswami Maharaj. <br> Letter to <span class=SpellE>Brahmananda</span> December 12th, 1968<br> **<br> My dear boys and girls, you are working so hard for broadcasting the glories of Lord Krishna s lotus feet, and thus my Guru Maharaja will be so pleased upon you. Surely my Guru Maharaja will bestow his blessing a thousand times more than me. <br> Letter to <span class=SpellE>Ramesvara</span> 4/15/1973</span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;text-align:justify; line-height:115%;layout-grid-mode:char'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>1)</span></b><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> <i>TFO</i> fully agrees with the quotes above, and the sentiments expressed regarding His Divine Grace Bhaktisiddhanta Goswami Maharaja. And it is not possible to <i>defeat TFO</i> by making statements that <u>agree</u> with it! Maybe the GBC should have selected someone to rebut <i>TFO</i> who understands this very elementary point of logic!<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>2)</span></b><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> If one wishes to claim that these quotes above mean that one will also get Srila Prabhupada s mercy even if he is not one s <i>diksa</i> guru, but the <i>diksa</i> guru of one s <i>diksa</i> guru, one needs to first prove that Srila Prabhupada has been replaced by one of his disciples as ISKCON s <i>diksa</i> guru. We have seen thus far that the slideshow has not presented a scintilla of evidence for this claim. Only false statements and cheating.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;text-align:justify; line-height:115%;layout-grid-mode:char'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;line-height:115%; layout-grid-mode:char;background:#FFC000'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'> <span class=SpellE>Krsnadasa</span> <span class=SpellE>Kaviraja</span>, who presented the deepest understanding of Lord Chaitanya and His teaching, was a grand disciple of Lord Chaitanya. He understood through his diksha guru, Raghunath <span class=SpellE>dasa</span> Goswami. <br> <span class=SpellE>Krsnadasa</span> <span class=SpellE>Kaviraja</span> <span class=SpellE>Gosvami</span> says that he has been able to describe these four pastimes of Sri Chaitanya <span class=SpellE>Mahaprabhu</span> by the blessings of <span class=SpellE>Srila</span> Rupa <span class=SpellE>Gosvami</span>. <span class=SpellE>Krsnadasa</span> <span class=SpellE>Kaviraja</span> <span class=SpellE>Gosvami</span> was not actually a direct disciple of <span class=SpellE>Srila</span> Rupa <span class=SpellE>Gosvami</span>, but he followed the instructions given by <span class=SpellE>Srila</span> Rupa <span class=SpellE>Gosvami</span> in the Bhakti-<span class=SpellE>rasamrta</span>-<span class=SpellE>sindhu</span>. He therefore acted according to the directions of Rupa <span class=SpellE>Gosvami</span> and prayed in every chapter for his mercy. <br> CC <span class=SpellE>Antya</span> 19.101 / purport</span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;line-height:115%; layout-grid-mode:char'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>The answer just presented for the previous shaded box, applies equally here.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;line-height:115%; layout-grid-mode:char'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;line-height:115%; layout-grid-mode:char;background:#FFC000'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>Q&amp;A<br> <br> Q: Could <span class=SpellE>Srila</span> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada</span> install a <span class=SpellE>rtvic</span> [sic] system?<br> A: <span class=GramE>Of course</span> he could. But it is not a question of our willingness or unwillingness to accept that <span class=SpellE>Srila</span> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada</span>, as the Founder-Acharya, could establish a new system of initiation. Rather it is a simple question of knowing and accepting what he <span class=GramE>actually said</span>. And what he said is <i>grand-disciple, disciple of my disciple, regular guru.</i></span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;text-align:justify; line-height:115%;layout-grid-mode:char'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>1)</span></b><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> What Srila Prabhupada established was not a  new system of initiation . For ISKCON, the system whereby everyone becomes an initiated disciple of Srila Prabhupada following a recommendation from the Temple President, was the system of initiation that virtually everyone in ISKCON was used to. <o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>2)</span></b><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> Unfortunately, just *deleting* and *changing* Srila Prabhupada s words won t make them go away. He actually said:<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> Officiating <i>acarya</i> /</span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'> </span><i><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>rtvik</span></i><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> and  <i>rtvik</i> in both the May 28th, 1977, conversation and the July 9th, 1977, directive. And the former was specifically in answer to the question of how initiations would be conducted  particularly at that time when you re no longer with us. <o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>3)</span></b><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> Srila Prabhupada also said  his grand-disciple and  when I order in respect of  regular guru .<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>One must take <u>all</u> of Srila Prabhupada s words together, <u>as they are</u>, rather than try to fabricate them as being evidence of <i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>diksa</i> guru successors having been ordered.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;text-align:justify; line-height:115%;layout-grid-mode:char'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;text-align:justify; line-height:115%;layout-grid-mode:char;background:#FFC000'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>Q: Although <span class=SpellE>Srila</span> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada</span> wrote and spoke about his disciples becoming regular gurus, didn t he change his mind as he prepared to leave the planet, seeing that they were not qualified?<br> A: When <span class=SpellE>Srila</span> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada</span> was asked whether he was dissatisfied with his disciples (as <span class=SpellE>Srila</span> <span class=SpellE>Bhaktisiddhanta</span> was) he said <i>No</i>. Rather, he said that he was satisfied. When asked if he was leaving any work unfinished, he said, <span class=GramE><i>Yes</i></span><i>, I have not established varnashrama-dharma</i>. This certainly would have been an appropriate time to state that he had not been able to create disciples qualified to be gurus upon his departure. But he did not.</span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;text-align:justify; line-height:115%;layout-grid-mode:char'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>This refers to some  Prabhupada said statements. There is no record of the statements claimed above. If the GBC wishes to make its case, it should at the very least have statements from Srila Prabhupada that it can be established Srila Prabhupada definitely spoke. So far, the GBC has relied only on:<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>- Changing or deleting Srila Prabhupada s statements;<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>- Assertions not supported by Srila Prabhupada s statements;<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>- And now claimed statements from Srila Prabhupada for which there is no record.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Any neutral observer would have to objectively conclude that this means that the GBC has utterly failed to prove its case by presenting Srila Prabhupada s actual statements.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;text-align:justify; line-height:115%;layout-grid-mode:char'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;text-align:justify; line-height:115%;layout-grid-mode:char;background:#FFC000'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>Q: If <u>regular</u> gurus is the system <span class=SpellE>Srila</span> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada</span> wanted, why have we had so many problems with it?<br> A: We have had problems with <span class=SpellE>gurukulas</span>, sannyasis, marriages, etc. That we have a problem establishing the order of the guru does not mean the order or our understanding of it are wrong.</span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>The GBC is unable to even state *what* the  regular gurus system is. Is it:<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>a)</span></b><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> The system whereby one becomes a  regular guru via first being appointed as a <i>rtvik</i>? If not, then how did the first <i>diksa</i> gurus in ISKCON emerge, given that they were only ever appointed as <i>rtviks</i>? If yes, then where does Srila Prabhupada ever speak about this <i>rtvik-diksa</i> guru system?<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>b)</span></b><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> The system whereby whenever Srila Prabhupada states  become guru , he is actually ordering  regular gurus ? If yes, then why does Srila Prabhupada also connect such orders with stating that even a  child can do it, and no qualification is needed, when in this slideshow presentation it is claimed that Srila Prabhupada ordered that  regular gurus had to be qualified first?<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>c)</span></b><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> The system whereby one needs to first get the required number of GBC authorisation votes?<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>In this slideshow, the GBC has not been able to present any orders from Srila Prabhupada directing that he be replaced as ISKCON s <i>diksa</i> guru with such  regular gurus .<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;text-align:justify; line-height:115%;layout-grid-mode:char'><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></b></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;text-align:justify; line-height:115%;layout-grid-mode:char;background:#FFC000'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>Q: Wouldn t <span class=SpellE>rtvik</span> be a better system? Or couldn t we have both systems simultaneously; some initiates can opt for ISKCON gurus, some can opt for <span class=SpellE>rtvik</span> from <span class=SpellE>Srila</span> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada</span>.<br> A: Our duty and salvation is in following the orders of our founder-acharya. Many thought the zonal acharya system sounded great, but in time it bore unexpected and bitter fruits. The great acharyas are <span class=SpellE>trilocana</span>, they can perfectly see past, present, and future. Again, our duty and guarantee of success is in simply following the orders of the acharyas.</span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;text-align:justify; line-height:115%;layout-grid-mode:char'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>1)</span></b><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> Since it is accepted that the <i>acaryas</i> are <i>trilocana</i>, then one cannot claim that Srila Prabhupada appointed those 11  zonal <i>acaryas</i> as <i>diksa</i> gurus, since virtually all of them subsequently  fell down . But if they were not authorised to become <i>diksa</i> gurus, then this would mean that they were to not have changed into <i>diksa</i> gurus after having been first appointed as <i>rtviks</i>. In which case they should have remained as <i>rtviks</i> and the current ISKCON <i>diksa</i> guru system would never have even emerged.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>2)</span></b><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> Yes, we must simply follow the orders of the <i>acaryas</i>. But there are no orders from ISKCON s <i>Acarya</i> Srila Prabhupada authorising the current GBC guru system. The only order we have is his <i>rtvik</i> order, as given both in the May 28th, 1977, conversation (as deleted by the GBC), and the July 9th, 1977, directive.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;text-align:justify; line-height:115%;layout-grid-mode:char'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;line-height:115%; layout-grid-mode:char;background:#FFC000'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>Q: Aren t written orders more important than spoken orders (the May conversation being spoken; the July letter being written)?<br> A: <i>Guru <span class=SpellE>mukha</span> <span class=SpellE>padma</span> <span class=SpellE>vakya</span></i>& <span class=SpellE>Narottama</span> <span class=SpellE>dasa</span> <span class=SpellE>Thakura</span> enjoins us to be purified by the words emanating from the mouth of the spiritual master. Also, the May conversation was not just any conversation. It was an extremely formal and sober discussion. <span class=SpellE>Srila</span> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada</span> had personally petitioned the GBC to <span class=GramE>meet together</span>, decide if there were any important issues that needed further clarification before he departed, and then to come before him to discuss the issues. The questions were in writing, and the answers were written down and entered into the GBC minutes books and signed by all the GBCs <span class=GramE>present</span>.</span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;text-align:justify; line-height:115%;layout-grid-mode:char'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>1)</span></b><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> If the GBC believed that Srila Prabhupada s words in the May 28th, 1977, conversation are so holy that we should be  purified by them, then it would not have *deleted* them, as we caught it doing above!<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>2)</span></b><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> Here is what the GBC minutes book claims Srila Prabhupada supposedly answered in the May 28th, 1977, conversation</span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'> </span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'> </span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'> </span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><i><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> 2) Srila Prabhupada said he will appoint several devotees who shall perform initiations in the future even after his disappearance. The disciples they accept shall be their disciples and Srila Prabhupada will be their grand spiritual master. <o:p></o:p></span></i></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'> </span><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>in response to the following questions:<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><i><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> 3) In the absence of Srila Prabhupada what is the procedure for first, second and sannyasa initiations?<o:p></o:p></span></i></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><i><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>4) What is the relationship of the person who gives this initiation to the person who he gives it to? <o:p></o:p></span></i></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Thus, according to all the GBC men who signed this book, Srila Prabhupada  appointed 11 <i>diksa</i> guru successors as the solution to how initiations would continue in ISKCON after Srila Prabhupada physically departed. There is no mention of any  regular guru system, nor that anyone else should become guru. Rather, <u>the</u> initiation system was to be the system whereby only 11 appointed <i>diksa</i> gurus initiate, i.e. the zonal <i>acarya</i> guru hoax, which was the system the GBC followed straightaway for almost a decade. The same </span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>z</span><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>onal </span><i><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>a</span></i><i><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>carya</span></i><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> </span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>h</span><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>oax </span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language: EN-US'>that</span><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> we just quoted the slideshow admitting was not authorised in the previous quotation we presented from the slideshow.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>So, by promoting the GBC minutes book, the GBC is simultaneously also promoting the zonal <i>acarya</i> hoax which it claims was false.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;text-align:justify; line-height:115%;layout-grid-mode:char'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;line-height:115%; layout-grid-mode:char;background:#FFC000'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>Q: Doesn t the July letter prove that <span class=SpellE>Srila</span> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada</span> wanted a proxy system?<br> A: It proves that he wanted a proxy system for the remainder of the time he was physically on the planet, as everyone has agreed all along. It was intended as a time-bound system, put in place until <span class=SpellE>Srila</span> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada s</span> physical disappearance.</span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;text-align:justify; line-height:115%;layout-grid-mode:char'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>1)</span></b><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> The slideshow already admitted, as we quoted it stating earlier, that the July 9th, 1977, letter was not a  time-bound system since it did not mention being bound by time at all:<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><i><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> The July 9th letter does not mention Srila Prabhupada s departure <o:p></o:p></span></i></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Thus, one cannot claim that a system which specifically does not mention being bound by time, is a time-bound system!<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>2)</span></b><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> Nor can one claim that a system that specifically does *not* mention  Srila Prabhupada s physical disappearance was put in place  until Srila Prabhupada s physical disappearance . Such an assertion would be as absurd as claiming that the system was put in place until the  Queen of England s physical disappearance , because in both cases there is no mention of either  time-bound condition. Otherwise, one could arbitrarily invent any  time-bound condition one wanted to for the July 9th, 1977, letter, if such a time-bound condition does not require to even be mentioned by the letter.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;text-align:justify; line-height:115%;layout-grid-mode:char'><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></b></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;line-height:115%; layout-grid-mode:char;background:#FFC000'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>Q: <span class=SpellE>Srila</span> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada s</span> will mentions his initiated disciples. Doesn t that indicate that even in the future everyone will be <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada s</span> disciple?<br> A: Again, history and context shed light on the situation. Review of the conversations surrounding this event shows that <span class=SpellE>Srila</span> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada s</span> concern was that the trustees / directors be  initiated devotees , not merely top donors or friends of the movement. <br> However, one can ask: <i>But why use the word <u>my</u>? Surely this means that all initiates in the future will be direct disciples of <span class=SpellE>Srila</span> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada</span>.</i> </span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;text-align:justify; line-height:115%;layout-grid-mode:char'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>This refers to Srila Prabhupada s Last Will and Testament stating that Directors for ISKCON s permanent temples in India would always be  my initiated disciples , where the  my referred to Srila Prabhupada. As the question above correctly states, the inclusion of such a provision by Srila Prabhupada<i>  means that all initiates in the future will be direct disciples of Srila Prabhupada , </i>i.e. they will be Srila Prabhupada s initiated disciples. The GBC s answer below, confirms that this indeed is the case:<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;line-height:115%; layout-grid-mode:char;background:#FFC000'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>But remember, at the time, everyone was a disciple of <span class=SpellE>Srila</span> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada</span>. All the names listed as trustees / directors<i> were</i> <span class=SpellE>Srila</span> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada s</span> disciples. Additionally, the future of a world without <span class=SpellE>Srila</span> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada</span> being physically present had not yet become a reality for his followers. <span class=SpellE>Giriraja</span> Maharaja, who was intimately involved in drafting the will, recalls: <i>We weren t used to thinking like that. In retrospect, it was very naive</i>. Interview / January 26, 1996. <br> As presented earlier, ultimately, all future initiated devotees <i>are </i><span class=SpellE>Srila</span> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada</span> disciples in that they are following him and connected to him via the guru-<span class=SpellE>parampara</span> system. In this sense, by the grace of <span class=SpellE>Srila</span> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada</span>, one can become not only his disciple but at the same time the disciple of <span class=SpellE>Srila</span> <span class=SpellE>Bhaktisiddhanta</span> Sarasvati <span class=SpellE>Thakura</span>, <span class=SpellE>Srila</span> <span class=SpellE>Bhaktivinode</span> <span class=SpellE>Thakura</span>, the six <span class=SpellE>Gosvamis</span>, and all the other acharyas in <span class=SpellE>Srila</span> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada s</span> line.</span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Thus, this  non-answer just states that:<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>1)</span></b><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> We can all become non-initiated disciples of Srila Prabhupada and others in the <i>parampara</i>. Which does not even address the fact that the Will specifically states that the Directors must be Srila Prabhupada s  <i>initiated </i> disciples. The fact that one can become the <i>opposite</i></span><i><span style='font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'> </span></i><i><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> </span></i><i><span style='font-family: "Times New Roman",serif'> </span></i><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>a non-initiated disciple of Srila Prabhupada</span><span style='font-family: "Times New Roman",serif'> </span><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> </span><span style='font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'> </span><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'>does not change the fact that the Will states that one must be an  initiated disciple of Srila Prabhupada. Thereby, this  answer just confirms the fact that the GBC has no answer to this requirement given in the Will, and thus the conclusion that  <i>Surely this means that all initiates in the future will be direct disciples of Srila Prabhupada </i>, remains unchallenged and thus stands.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>2)</span></b><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> It also claimed that the  future of a world without Srila Prabhupada being physically present had not yet become a reality for his followers. However, the slideshow just claimed the opposite. We quoted the slideshow just above stating in relation to the May 28th, 1977, conversation that:<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><i><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> Srila Prabhupada had personally petitioned the GBC to meet together, decide if there were any important issues that needed further clarification <u>before he departed</u>, and then to come before him to discuss the issues. <o:p></o:p></span></i></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>And the third question the GBC wrote down to ask was:<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><i><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> 3) In the <u>absence</u> of Srila Prabhupada what is the procedure for first, second and sannyasa initiations? <o:p></o:p></span></i></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>And the very first question asked in the May 28th, 1977, conversation, was:<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> Then our next question concerns initiations in the future, <u>particularly at that time when you re no longer with us.</u> We want to know how first and second initiation would be conducted. <o:p></o:p></span></b></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>It seems the slideshow itself is making it clear that the leaders were very aware of a world without Srila Prabhupada, at least when it came to the issue of initiation at the end of May 1977, which was right before the Will was drafted a few days later at the beginning of June.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;text-align:justify; line-height:115%;layout-grid-mode:char'><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></b></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;line-height:115%; layout-grid-mode:char;background:#FFC000'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>Q: The will states that the system of management should not change. Doesn t this mean no change from the proxy system established in the July letter?<br> A: The quote is taken out of context. In the will, <u>system of management</u> refers to the management structure of ISKCON. A change from proxy to regular gurus does not change the operational procedures for the management of ISKCON. Rather, this transition from proxy to regular gurus is the traditional evolution that has taken place since time immemorial when the diksha guru is no longer physically present. At that time the responsibility to carry on the disciple succession is naturally transferred to the shoulders of qualified disciples of the diksha guru.</span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;text-align:justify; line-height:115%;layout-grid-mode:char'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>1)</span></b><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> The GBC actually states that what happened in ISKCON with the introduction of its GBC guru system was not at all  traditional , but unique:<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD align=left style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;text-align:left'><i><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> ISKCON s ethos of multiple </span></i><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>diksa<i>- and </i>siksa<i>-gurus serving under the auspices of a global managerial board is unique in the history of Vaisnavism </i><br> (GBC Resolution 318, 2014)<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>2)</span></b><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> The  system of management means how ISKCON is managed. How someone joins and is inducted into the movement is a key part of how ISKCON is managed. Without this activity, the movement would effectively cease to be a preaching organisation, and lose it very <i>raison d etre</i>. How someone joined and was inducted into the movement changed radically once the simple July 9th, 1977,  everyone-gets-initiated-in-the-same-way-by-the-same-person <i>rtvik</i> system was replaced by multiple GBC gurus now competing for disciples.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;text-align:justify; line-height:115%;layout-grid-mode:char'><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></b></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;line-height:115%; layout-grid-mode:char;background:#FFC000'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>Q: <span class=SpellE>Srila</span> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada</span> said <i>When I order, you become guru.</i> When did he give the order?<br> A: Taken out of context, the sentence could seemingly point to a future order, but in fact <span class=SpellE>Srila</span> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada</span> made this statement in the context of the May 28th conversation, as part of a detailed explanation. Just previously in that conversation, <span class=SpellE>Srila</span> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada</span> had said, <i>So on my behalf, on my order& Amara <span class=SpellE>ajnaya</span> guru <span class=SpellE>hana</span>. Be <span class=GramE>actually guru</span>, but by my order.</i></span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;text-align:justify; line-height:115%;layout-grid-mode:char'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>1)</span></b><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> However, referring to this supposed order for  regular gurus in the May 28th, 1977, conversation, the slideshow had claimed earlier that:<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><i><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> His disciples should become regular gurus, with disciples of their own, but only after his departure and only if they were qualified. <o:p></o:p></span></i></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>The <i> amara ajnaya guru hana </i>  become guru order, Srila Prabhupada had previously given without connecting it to departure or being qualified. Rather, Srila Prabhupada uses the order to refer to even children becoming gurus:<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD align=left style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;text-align:left'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight: normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> Therefore Caitanya Mahaprabhu& </span></b><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'> </span></b><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><i><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Yare dekha tare kaha  krsna -upadesa</span></i></b><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight: normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>:  You become guru.<span style='mso-spacerun:yes'>� </span>No qualification required. [& ] Anyone can do it, even a child.</span></b><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'> </span></b><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'><br> (</span><span class=SpellE><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>Srila</span></span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada</span>, </span><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Room Conversation, 2</span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>6/1/</span><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>77)</span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Hence, this is not referring to qualified <i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>diksa</i> gurus being ordered for when Srila Prabhupada physically departs. <o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>2)</span></b><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> Thus, the question still remains: When exactly did Srila Prabhupada give this order for qualified <i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>diksa</i> gurus for when he physically departed</span><span style='font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'> </span><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> </span><span style='font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'> </span><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>the supposed  regular gurus order?:<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>a)</span></b><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> The slideshow is arguing that it is not a  future order .<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>b)</span></b><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> Nor was it given in the May 28th, 1977, conversation itself, because there Srila Prabhupada only says  when I order . <o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>c)</span></b><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> And we just saw that it was not Srila Prabhupada s <i> amara ajnaya guru hana </i> order.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Hence, according to the slideshow</span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>, </span><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>we would still be left with the conclusion that such a <i style='mso-bidi-font-style: normal'>diksa</i> guru order was never given by Srila Prabhupada.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;text-align:justify; line-height:115%;layout-grid-mode:char'><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></b></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;line-height:115%; layout-grid-mode:char;background:#FFC000'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>Q: What about the Topanga tapes? Didn t Tamal <span class=SpellE>Krsna</span> Maharaja reveal that there was a conspiracy to cover up <span class=SpellE>Srila</span> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada s</span> desire for a proxy system?<br> A: In the Topanga conversations, Tamal <span class=SpellE>Krsna</span> Maharaja says that it was a mistake to not expand the number of gurus sooner in ISKCON. He concedes that the zonal acharya system was wrong. He says that <span class=SpellE>Srila</span> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada</span> wanted all his disciples to become qualified and become regular gurus. Tamal <span class=SpellE>Krsna</span> Maharaja never said that <span class=SpellE>Srila</span> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada</span> wanted a <span class=SpellE>rtvik</span> [proxy] system.</span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;text-align:justify; line-height:115%;layout-grid-mode:char'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>a)</span></b><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> Here is what </span><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight: normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Tamal Krsna Maharaja (</span></b><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'> </span></b><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>TKG</span></b><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight: normal'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language: EN-US'> </span></b><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>)</span></b><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> stated on the  Topanga tapes :<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD align=left style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;text-align:left'><i><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> Actually, Prabhupada never appointed any gurus. [& ] He appointed eleven </span></i><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>rtviks<i>. He never appointed them gurus. Myself and the other GBC have done the greatest disservice to this movement the last three years because we interpreted the appointment of rtviks as the appointment of gurus. </i><br> (</span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language: EN-US'>TKG</span><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>, Topanga conversation, 3/12/80)<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>And here is what the GBC minutes book, which this slideshow promotes, states:<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><i><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> 2) Srila Prabhupada <u>said he will appoint several devotees</u> who shall perform initiations in the future even after his disappearance. The disciples they <u>accept shall be their disciples</u> and Srila Prabhupada will be their grand spiritual master. <o:p></o:p></span></i></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Thus, this means that, according to TKG, the GBC minutes book contains a pack of lies.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>b)</span></b><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> Further, TKG states that the <i>rtviks</i> would only stop becoming <i>rtviks</i> and turn into <i>diksa</i> gurus through their own initiative and desire, and not from being authorised to do so by Srila Prabhupada:<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD align=left style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;text-align:left'><i><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> So it stands to reason that after Prabhupada s departure, they would go on, if they so desired, to initiate. </span></i><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'><br> (</span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language: EN-US'>TKG</span><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>, 3/12/80)<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Thus, by putting points a) and b) from TKG together, we have that</span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'> -<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>a)</span></b><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> Srila Prabhupada *only* authorised <i style='mso-bidi-font-style: normal'>rtviks</i>;<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>b)</span></b><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> These <i>rtviks</i> only became <i>diksa</i> gurus on their own initiative rather than being authorised to do so by Srila Prabhupada<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>- which means we are left with the conclusion from TKG that Srila Prabhupada only authorised <i>rtviks</i>, period.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;text-align:justify; line-height:115%;layout-grid-mode:char'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;line-height:115%; layout-grid-mode:char;background:#FFC000'><u><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>Conclusion<br> </span></u><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:black; mso-color-alt:windowtext;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>The <span class=SpellE>rtvik</span> advocates present a complex set of speculative arguments. But they cannot provide one single piece [sic] evidence to answer the key question: <i>Where did <span class=SpellE>Srila</span> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada</span> say that he will continue to accept disciples after his physical departure?</i><u><br> </u>The fact is that their whole case is built on sand. It is  smoke and mirrors . It is a bluff only.</span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;text-align:justify; line-height:115%;layout-grid-mode:char'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Repeating the same false point multiple times does not make it any truer. We will repeat the answer to this false point above, which we already gave earlier:<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>We just noted that when asked how initiations would be conducted  particularly at that time when you re no longer with us , Srila Prabhupada *does* answer with  officiating <i>acarya</i> /</span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'> </span><i><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>rtvik</span></i><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> , thereby affirming that he would continue to initiate disciples via <i>rtviks</i> after his physical departure. An answer so damning that</span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>,</span><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> as we saw earlier, the GBC was compelled to delete it! In addition, the above argument put forward by the slideshow is a logical fallacy known as  assuming that which needs to be proven :<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>1)</span></b><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> The above argument *assumes* that Srila Prabhupada must stop initiating once he physically departs.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>2)</span></b><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> Only if such an assumption is true would Srila Prabhupada need to counter such an assumption and state the opposite</span><span style='font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'> </span><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> </span><span style='font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'> </span><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>that he would *continue* to initiate.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>3)</span></b><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> But if such an assumption is not correct then there would be nothing for Srila Prabhupada to counter, nor would he need to state that he can *continue* to initiate, when there is no bar on him initiating to begin with.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Yet, the GBC s whole case depends on this unsubstantiated assumption, that the spiritual master must stop initiating as soon as he physically departs. Without it, </span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>the GBC has</span><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> no case. Hence, </span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>it is</span><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> forced to just *assume* that this assertion is true, since </span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>it has</span><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> no evidence to prove that the assertion is true.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;text-align:justify; line-height:115%;layout-grid-mode:char'><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></b></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;line-height:115%; layout-grid-mode:char;background:#FFC000'><u><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>The bottom line<br> <br> </span></u><span class=SpellE><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif; color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>Srila</span></span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada</span> was formally asked by the GBC: <u><br> </u><i>Our next question concerns initiations in the future, particularly at that time when you re no longer with us. </i><u><br> </u><span class=SpellE>Srila</span> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada</span> answered: <u><br> </u><i>Regular guru/ Grand disciple <br> <span class=SpellE>Disciple</span> of my disciple</i><u><br> </u><i>(the end)</i></span><u><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></u></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>No. For those of us who can read, and do not rely on *deleting* Srila Prabhupada s<b> </b>answer, this is what Srila Prabhupada actually answered in response to the above question:<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm;text-indent:14.2pt'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Srila Prabhupada:</span></b><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>  Yes. I shall recommend some of you. After this is settled up I shall recommend some of you to act as officiating </span><i><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>a</span></i><i><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>carya</span></i><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'>. <o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm;text-indent:14.2pt;line-height:normal'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight: normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Tamal Krsna Goswami:</span></b><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>  Is that called<i> rtvik </i></span><i><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>a</span></i><i><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>carya</span></i><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'>? <o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm;text-indent:14.2pt;line-height:normal'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight: normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Srila Prabhupada:</span></b><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>  <i>Rtvik</i>. Yes. <o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm;text-indent:14.2pt'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>(May 28th, 1977, Conversation)<b><o:p></o:p></b></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><i><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>That</span></i><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> is actually the  bottom line : the GBC is defeated so badly by Srila Prabhupada s  <i>rtvik</i> answer that it was forced to delete it.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;text-align:justify; line-height:115%;layout-grid-mode:char'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;line-height:115%; layout-grid-mode:char;background:#FFC000'><b><u><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>References<br> <br> </span></u></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif; color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'> May 28th, <span class=GramE>1977</span> <span class=SpellE>Vrindaban</span> / Conversation: <span class=SpellE>Srila</span> <span class=SpellE>Prabhupada</span> and GBC members (Folio)<b><u><br> </u></b><i> Disciple of my disciple</i> (GBC paper)<b><u><br> </u></b><i> Where the <span class=SpellE>rtvik</span> people are wrong </i> (<span class=SpellE>Jayadvaita</span> swami)<b><u><br> </u></b><i> <span class=SpellE>Rtvik</span> Heresy </i> pamphlet (<span class=SpellE>Drutakarma</span> <span class=SpellE>dasa</span> and <span class=SpellE>Badrinarayan</span> Swami)<b><u><br> </u></b><i>100 refutations of <span class=SpellE>Rtvikism</span></i> (Compilation by multiple ISKCON authors)</span><b><u><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></u></b></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;text-align:justify; line-height:115%;layout-grid-mode:char'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>The above are papers the slideshow has drawn upon to compile its arguments. Each one of these papers was already thoroughly defeated at the time, as can be seen at the following links:<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD align=left style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;text-align:left'><i><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> Disciple of my disciple</span></i><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> (GBC paper)</span><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri'><br> </span><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>&nbsp;<a href="https://www.iskconirm.com/docs/webpages/final_order_still_stands.htm" target="_blank"><span style='color:#1155CC'>https://www.iskconirm.com/docs/webpages/final_order_still_stands.htm</span></a></span><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD align=left style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;text-align:left'><i><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> Where the </span></i><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>rtvik<i> people are wrong </i>&nbsp;(Jayadvaita Swami)</span><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri'><br> </span><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'><a href="https://www.iskconirm.com/docs/webpages/a_reply_to_jayadvaita_swami.htm" target="_blank"><span style='color:#1155CC'>https://www.iskconirm.com/docs/webpages/a_reply_to_jayadvaita_swami.htm</span></a></span><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD align=left style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;text-align:left'><i><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> </span></i><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'>Rtvik<i> Heresy </i>&nbsp;pamphlet (Drutakarma dasa and Badrinarayan Swami)</span><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif; mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri'><br> </span><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'><a href="https://www.iskconirm.com/docs/webpages/gbc24.htm" target="_blank"><span style='color:#1155CC'>https://www.iskconirm.com/docs/webpages/gbc24.htm</span></a></span><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD align=left style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;text-align:left'><i><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>100 refutations of Rtvikism</span></i><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>&nbsp;(Compilation by multiple ISKCON authors)</span><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri'><br> </span><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'><a href="https://www.iskconirm.com/docs/webpages/100_deviations.htm" target="_blank"><span style='color:#1155CC'>https://www.iskconirm.com/docs/webpages/100_deviations.htm</span></a></span><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Hence, it is no surprise, as we have just documented, that the slideshow derived from these papers was also thoroughly defeated as well.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;text-align:justify; line-height:115%;layout-grid-mode:char'><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-family: "Georgia",serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></b></p> <p class=regparaplusMOSTCOMMON style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right: 0cm;mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;text-indent:0cm; line-height:115%;layout-grid-mode:char'><b><u><span style='font-size:16.0pt; line-height:115%;font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#98005C'>Conclusion<o:p></o:p></span></u></b></p> <p class=regparaplusMOSTCOMMON style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:4.8pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-para-margin-top:.4gd;mso-para-margin-right: 0cm;mso-para-margin-bottom:.4gd;mso-para-margin-left:0cm;line-height:115%; layout-grid-mode:char'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;line-height:115%; font-family:"Georgia",serif'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Rather than answer <i>TFO</i> or the  <i>Rtvik</i> theory , we have been able to show that this GBC slideshow merely highlights that:<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>1)</span></b><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> Srila Prabhupada ordered <i>rtviks</i> for when he was  particularly no longer with us .<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>2)</span></b><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> Srila Prabhupada s <i>rtvik</i> system as given on July 9th, 1977, was not terminated on his physical departure.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>3)</span></b><span style='font-family: "Georgia",serif'> The slideshow does not answer <i>TFO</i> and the so-called  <i>rtvik</i> theory , but instead presents false statements about it, buttressed with assertions </span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Georgia",serif; mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>which</span><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> are not substantiated by statements from Srila Prabhupada.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MAINBOD style='margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.8pt; margin-left:0cm'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Consequently, <i>TFO</i> still remains standing and undefeated over a quarter of a century after the GBC first attempted to answer it.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p align=center style='text-align:center'><b><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></b></p> <p align=center style='text-align:center'><b><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif; color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><a href="https://www.iskconirm.com/"><strong><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Return to IRM Homepage</span></strong></a></span></b><b><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p> <p align=center style='text-align:center'><b><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif; color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'>&nbsp;</span></b><b><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p> </blockquote> </td> </tr> </table> </div> <p class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; display:none;mso-hide:all'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p> <div align=center> <table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=30 cellpadding=0 width=800 style='width:600.0pt;mso-cellspacing:1.5pt;background:#993366;mso-yfti-tbllook: 1184;mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'> <tr style='mso-yfti-irow:0;mso-yfti-firstrow:yes;mso-yfti-lastrow:yes'> <td width=793 style='width:594.75pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'> <p class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; color:#FFFFCC'>Please chant:<strong><i><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna, Krishna, Hare, Hare,</span></i></strong><b><i><br> <strong><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama, Rama, Hare, Hare. </span></strong></i></b>And be Happy! <o:p></o:p></span></p> </td> </tr> </table> </div> <p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p> </div> </body> </html>