BTP 73 Nonsense Corner
Back To Prabhupada, Issue 73, Vol. 2, 2022, Interactive
This is a column in which we answer articles or statements that have been forwarded to us by our readers for rebutting.
During a recent lecture given at ISKCON UK headquarters Bhaktivedanta Manor (on 21/5/22), a member of the audience asked the lecturer what "statement or quote" the "rtviks" have to justify their position. (Those who advocate the IRM's position – that we must accept Srila Prabhupada as ISKCON's diksa guru by following the rtvik system of initiation which Srila Prabhupada ordered by issuing the July 9th, 1977, directive – are called "rtviks" by those in ISKCON).
The quotes in shaded boxes are taken from the lecturer's answer to this question, with our comments interspersed beneath.
1) The lecturer completely ignores the actual question that is asked. She explains what the rtvik system is. However, this was not the question asked, since presumably the questioner already knew what the rtvik system is, otherwise they would not be asking about what the evidence for such a system is.
2) Thus, the actual question asked – what "quote" or "statement" rtviks have to justify their position – is not answered by the lecturer. If the lecturer was honest, she could have either:
a) Stated she does not know;
b) Or offered the evidence we put forward. The lecturer could then even have tried to rebut such evidence if she wanted.
It is telling, therefore, that the lecturer makes no attempt to actually answer the question she was asked, but instead gives an irrelevant answer for a question that was not asked. Such evasion is indicative of how ISKCON attempts to "answer" the IRM's position – i.e. they cannot answer it, and hence they do not even bother to try!
Having failed to answer the question asked, the lecturer then instead offers what she claims is actually the "main thing". And proceeds to do the very thing she falsely accuses us of doing: "criticising" and "making things up" and unnecessarily fault finding. It is unclear whether she has even read The Final Order (dubbed by ISKCON's leaders as the rtvik "bible") or other IRM literature, for if she had, she would see that "the main thing" we do is simply repeat Srila Prabhupada's instructions and compare them to ISKCON leaders' statements and actions – or simply compare ISKCON leaders' own statements with each other! – and to date nobody has been able to point out a single untrue statement we have made. We invite the lecturer to attempt to actually understand our position rather than simply fabricating things.
The lecturer continues to completely "make things up" by fabricating a straw man argument since she cannot address what we actually state. We have never stated that Srila Prabhupada was incapable of creating other teachers or pure devotees. Rather, The Final Order states the complete opposite:
"all we are stating is that Srila Prabhupada did set up the ritvik system to allow initiations to continue. Whether or not Srila Prabhupada created pure devotees is not relevant to his clear and unequivocal final order. [...] Srila Prabhupada may have created many pure devotees [...] It is nowhere stated that it is mandatory for a pure devotee to become a diksa guru. Such persons would be delighted to work within the ritvik system if that was their guru's order."
We agree that rather than "getting upset, fighting", it is "helpful when we have more of the proper explanations". Thus, we agree that it would have been helpful for the lecturer to have actually given "more of the proper explanations" regarding the evidence the "rtvik" position is actually based on – rather than cheating and misleading her audience – beginning with having the honesty to explain what we actually state.
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